|
Post by Clifford on Aug 29, 2009 19:14:47 GMT -6
In less than a year, I have heard numerous stories of Lacys in Texas being killed while hog hunting. Interestingly enough, my friends who hog hunt here in Mississippi, who mostly run other breeds, rarely have dogs that suffer these fatal wounds. And, other folks in Texas, that do run Lacys, have gone for years without losing a dog too.
So, what is the difference? I'm definitely not going to say Catahoulas, which I have been around all of my life, are smarter than Lacys. And, I can just about guarantee it is not the hogs. A rank boar is the same no matter where he lives. So, that leaves the training...
Encouraging dogs to get in too close, is subjecting them to increased chances of serious injury. Adding protective equipment is nice, but calling a dog gritty and teaching them to catch is just a bad practice, and a corruption of what these herding dogs naturally do.
Lacys have been working hogs for over a century. But the old time hunters, that I have spoken to, have told me that Lacys should not be used to catch, and I respect their reasoning. Pitbulls are much better at it anyway. They say that a good dog will bay at the front, and nip at the rear. And, that's how they train their dogs. Once the hog is bayed, they move in for the kill with a pistol, and the dogs back off to a safe distance. This is done without catch dogs. Sticking the hog with a knife requires catch dogs, and so does tying hogs for transport. But, that's an element that has been added to raise the excitement level of hog hunting. If the object is a dead hog, and it should be, using the gun makes a lot more sense, if you have your dogs trained correctly!
So, why are Lacys being trained for this dangerous practice? Is it to satisfy the egos of younger folks, who do not respect the path laid before them by older, and wiser, hunters? Is it because they want to develop a different type of dog, still calling it a Lacy, but adding hog dog as an appendage to the name? Or, is it something much more insidious? Could it be that the dog is considered expendable, and that they are willing to just write one off that gets hurt? After all, its just another member of a pack, right?
This is not to say that hunting hogs is something that Lacys shouldn't do. It is just my way of bringing to light something that many folks might not be aware of. Maybe we would stop hearing these horror stories, if a few folks would reconsider what they are doing, and train their Lacys to bay, not catch!
|
|
|
Post by rebeccaferrell on Aug 29, 2009 19:39:23 GMT -6
Can I get an Amen! This is exactly what I've been talking about. very well put Clifford.
|
|
|
Post by podunkheaven on Aug 29, 2009 20:40:17 GMT -6
Very well said. The only pig I want to stick is one that is going on the spit.
|
|
amanda
Puppy not yet Weaned
Posts: 4
|
Post by amanda on Aug 29, 2009 22:32:44 GMT -6
Clifford just how long have you been around lacys?
|
|
|
Post by Clifford on Aug 30, 2009 4:07:16 GMT -6
Welcome to the forum amanda... How long have you been around? You sure didn't put much information in your profile.
How long have you been around Lacys? Are you a dog trainer, or just interested in why I would post on this topic?
Do you think that someone with years of experience training dogs would find training Lacys to be like starting over?
What kind of dogs do you have? Not Catahoulas, I hope! Cause you might not like what I would say about how hard headed they can be.
Please share more information with us. I'm betting you have more to say!
|
|
|
Post by rebeccaferrell on Aug 30, 2009 6:04:17 GMT -6
Clifford, You silly silly man. Don't you know that if you've never owned or hunting hogs with a Lacy then you most certainly can't know anything about hog hunting?
I do have a question..why do so many people in hog hunting use greyhounds or just plain mutts? And don't say it's not true because even though I've never hog hunted with Lacys I can read.
Elvira
|
|
|
Post by Clifford on Aug 30, 2009 7:30:50 GMT -6
It comes with the territory as you get older, because a lot of young folks might not have been taught to respect their elders, with the breakdown of the American family unit!
I'm giving Amanda the opportunity to explain herself here. But, it's really not much of a way to introduce yourself into a forum, when you start by asking just one leading question. I'm sure not everyone shares the same opinion with me on how Lacys should handle hogs. But, questioning how much experience I have, in order to start a debate is just not gonna fly!
I never went on anyone else's board, and stated my opinion. Nor, did I name names, or even mention where interested parties might more information about this subject. This is all in house, and I reserve the right to editorialize. Diessenting opinions will be considered as long as the poster is respectful!
|
|
amanda
Puppy not yet Weaned
Posts: 4
|
Post by amanda on Aug 30, 2009 10:23:52 GMT -6
Clifford thanks for the welcome.
I asked because in your post you stated in less than a year you have heard numerous stories from Texas. I really think that is a numbers game. The lacy community is a small group of dog lovers that have a real passion about these dogs. I see on your board that you have around 16 members, on other lacy boards the number is 100 to 200. Out of these numbers how many have you came to Texas and meet and seen their training? I do not know of ONE on either side of the lacy world that will teach their dog to catch! A dog will get in close and nip a hog, coon, etc to turn it the same with the way they work cattle. Bad practice, no it is the same way these dogs herd naturally. To put any lacy owner in a group that thinks their dog is expendable is outrageous and way off base!
|
|
|
Post by rebeccaferrell on Aug 30, 2009 10:36:31 GMT -6
While horse riding this am I gave this subject a little thought..I've seen tons of pictures of Lacy's and other breeds (I'm not talking catch dogs here) on various forums, flickr, and other means. I've seen them, in action, caught on the front end of a hog. I don't have to be on a Texas hunt to have seen this. It's out there. It's well known that some breeders know that their hunting dogs will catch out and therefore they aren't put in baying competitions. So if you have a dog or a line of dogs that is super gritty and catchy, why perpetuate this trait? I was recently informed that the old timers didn't want the Lacy's catching cause the hole could result in worms. Well if that's so why is this catchiness, for lack of a better word, being bred into Lacy's?? I've yet to read a story about Lacy's catching hogs; herding them yes. Two different methods. I'm not going to pretend that I've read every article out there on Lacy history which I'm sure I haven't. Elvira (more commonly known as Rebecca)
|
|
marloriley
Walkin Talkin Poopin Machine
Do you need training?
Posts: 76
|
Post by marloriley on Aug 30, 2009 11:07:08 GMT -6
There is one forum for the Blue Lacy breed that has been up for more than a year. In fact, years and years. Current numbers are over 850, with interested parties that have logged in to talk and share.
This forum might have started recently, but out of the 16 quoted above, they are not new to the Blue Lacy world and resources.
Clifford, I have truly enjoyed the several times you have made the haul down to Texas to visit with numerous seasoned trainers, breeders and working dog individuals. I say visit, but you have shown great abilities yourself, and have been an benifit to many others in your trips. You have jump right in and contributed to many yourself already.
Being you are not a boastful person, I just recently found a Webpage on your back ground in the hunting industry. You are in the seasoned, veteran, and pro categories with in this field. I am very grateful with all the hunting breeds out there, you selected the Blue Lacy as a worthy breed. You are a compliment to the breed, with your hunting knowledge, and writing abilities you posses.
Many issue that will be discussed or faced will not be new to you. I am glad you are an active and enthusiast member of the Blue Lacy Family.
|
|
|
Post by bluedog on Aug 30, 2009 11:26:14 GMT -6
I like you to Clifford....not that way, I just like you
|
|
|
Post by Clifford on Aug 30, 2009 11:33:20 GMT -6
To all who might be trying to figure out the funny words in some of these posts, the filter catches the a$$ inside of other words, and changes it...
amanda, you failed to answer my questions, but asked more... I admit that some of my post is designed to get people to consider possibilities, and is composed of speculation. But, it is obvious when folks talk about their dogs being so gritty that they are not able to enter them in bay contests because they catch, that these same dogs are the ones they are hunting with. And, appearances count for something. I expect associations to hold themselves to a high standard, if they want to represent this breed. And, what is being put out there is seen and read by people from all over the world, not just in Texas. So, why should they expect to get a pass? They are the ones publicizing what they do, not me. I am merely posting my opinion of it here! I don't care if they like me, or what I write. But, they can expect more people to comment here, as time passes. Because, there are other folks who see these same things, and who are not going to just let them slide
And, one other thing you can bet on, I won't have double standards! And, that can't be said about some folks!
|
|
betty
Walkin Talkin Poopin Machine
Posts: 67
|
Post by betty on Aug 30, 2009 13:00:13 GMT -6
As everyone knows, I dont hog hunt. The thing that I am finding interesting on this thread is that its ok to get a pit bull in and catch and die, but if you put a Lacy in there, its wrong? I believe that any dogs life is equal to any other dogs life. Many, many dogs get killed hog hunting. Its a dangerous sport.
I think that this thread is also interesting in that none of the people, except for Rebecca, have ever hog hunted. Since I dont know anything about hog hunting, I wont l comment more than to say, if you write on something, you should know a little bit about it. Its fine to read on the internet and write what you have read, but you also need to know the other side of the coin which evidently, that is not being considered for this thread. I would suggest that you post on somewhere where there are hog hunters that could actually give some input on the subject.
I will say of the many people that I know that hog hunt. NOT A SINGLE ONE OF THE COUNT THEIR DOGS AS EXPENDABLE.
Betty Leek
|
|
|
Post by bluedog on Aug 30, 2009 13:22:44 GMT -6
I was told yesterday that I know nothing about hog hunting and need to keep my mouth shut.
I'm just reading these threads and I am not reading where anyone has said that losing a dog is a good thing or acceptable. I did read where a question was posed as to whether dogs are considered expendable.
For me to go to a hog hunting forum would be useless, as I have been told that since I do not hog hunt that I cant learn anything by reading and listening to hunters.
Maybe this is whats wrong with our educational system, to much reading and not enough doing.
|
|
|
Post by Clifford on Aug 30, 2009 13:40:46 GMT -6
Well, welcome back Betty... I appreciate your comments, but I guarantee you I don't want Pit Bulls hurt either, and never said that was ok... It appears that I am taking fire over my statement that some folks treat their dogs like they have little lasting value. I guess that's just the way I see it when you stick em in bad situations, and are willing to accept a fatal outcome... And, its really hard to misconstrue what these folks say, unless they are just terrible communicators.
This has certainly been a lively conversation, but to eveyone's credit, it has remained very civil! I'd really like to see it remain that way. Maybe there could be some sort of truce, cause I sure feel the heat coming from over yonder! Do you want to broker it?
|
|