|
Post by podunkheaven on Sept 4, 2011 22:27:28 GMT -6
I know of breeders that have at least 12 litters a year. They are registered NOWHERE. There is no code of ethics in that mix at all. How can you stop that? The only thing we can do is educated folks to ask the right questions and look for the right things.
|
|
|
Post by joyates on Sept 4, 2011 22:40:56 GMT -6
Camo,
First of all I am not a Mr. And yes, I do have a problem with you saying that these dogs are not pets, but working dogs. I agree that these dogs should try and be placed in working homes, but that is not always the case. And as I mentioned above, this dog had been used for work. It just seems that you came on strong with the above comment, and this lady is just reaching out for some help with her dog. I have seen your comments on various forums about this same issue (which I don't feel like trying to find at this time) and have never made any comments, and it just gets under my skin a bit, so I decided to comment. A lacy can be a pet. They can also be a jam up working dog. All I am saying is you/we can't control what people do with their dogs. In a perfect world all lacys would go to working homes and never be mixed with another breed. And according to comments that I have read by you, if they don't work then they need to be neutered/spayed/culled...... I have 2 lacy mixes (rescues) and 2 full blooded lacys, and those full blooded lacys are not any better than my mixes. I guess what I am trying to say is that from some of your comments from other forums/places you are all about it HAS to be a working lacy or it isn't worth a dime to you. I have also read where you prefer a smaller lacy, and that is fine, but it makes it no better than a lacy that is bigger. We just all have different opinions, and I feel like you sometimes come across as "this is how it is suppose to be......it is black and white with no gray area" and that is not the reality of the situation. Not trying to beat up on you, and no I don't know you personally, but guess from the things that I have read that you have posted, I formed an opinion on what your thoughts are when it comes to lacys. Maybe I am wrong, and if so, and I have misunderstood some of your posts, then I am sorry if I offended you. I am not trying to make an enemy, but just giving my 2 cents which seems to differ alot from yours. And that is OK !!
|
|
|
Post by camo on Sept 4, 2011 22:46:30 GMT -6
Cynthia I understand your prospective on it for sure. I know you and were you are coming from and as always I completely respect your view and take on it . I agree I do not always see things the way others do and if that makes me a bad person then I guess I will live with that . Mr Yates I do want to thank you for answering my question about the dogs situation it makes it easier to understand the problem when you have all the information instead of a few of them .
|
|
|
Post by camo on Sept 4, 2011 23:02:34 GMT -6
Yates sorry for the Mr.thing my bad. Again I have a lacy that is a part time pet and blood trail dog . I also have large Lacys so no you do not know much about me . I do prefer a small lacy they are way more agile and quicker that is just what I prefer. If you read any comments that I made about pet lacy's then you should have read a little more . I can promise you I have never made the statement if they do not work they should be spayed or neutered or culled . You may have read that when it comes to my dogs or my pups. I agree there is a place for Lacy's that do not make the cut in my opinion and that is as a pet. That is what I call a cull and yes as a responsible breeder and I think any responsible breeder here will tell you the same thing. These dogs should be sold with a spay nueter contract to prevent them from breeding . But not to come across to strong I will let those breeders speak for themselves . I am not offend by you at all everyone is in titled to there opinions . I also still have nothing against you or your dogs . I just think you should take the time to know someone before you make some of the statements you made but then again that's just me and my opinion . I could easily make a judgment about you and your comments but I do not because I do not know you and to form a opinion of you off of that would not at all be fair to you and would never do that to you .I am very sorry you made your judgment about the kind of person I am off of some statements I may have made that you took the wrong way .
|
|
|
Post by Clifford on Sept 5, 2011 8:19:15 GMT -6
OK, time for me to weigh in again... All of you who are commenting here are people I consider friends, so this is an easy discussion for me.
Lets start with John... I know who the breeder is, and yes I want to know what he offered to do to help. This seems to be an issue with an owner who just really doesn't see what has caused the problem, more than them being someone who shouldn't have had a dog to begin with. Unfortunately, things change in families, and as they happen there have to be adjustments made. You can screen all you want to, and never solve that problem. And, obviously money is tempting, but I think there is little that any individual can do to stop someone else from breeding as many Lacy dogs as they wish to, and selling them for what ever price they can get, other than to just spread the word as you can. However, no group can police the world! So, what probably needs to be done is to promote positive ideas about owner/dog relationships, and work within the ranks of the breeders to get the bad ones to turn around. I have a ton of info posted on this site, and have added comments all over the Internet on other sites telling folks what Lacy dogs are like, and what a prospective owner should expect. I also just placed ELEVEN dogs, which are going to the best of homes, I hope. If something goes wrong in time, I hope that those folks contact me first, but I also would like to think that others would offer help, and not blame me for what happened at someone else's house, and on their watch!
Cynthia, most of my comments to John cover where I think you are on this. I truly hope that prospects that would lie just to get a dog can be figured out before they do. I know that you and I have told a lot of folks "NO", and we also communicate with each other about the phone calls we get. It is shame that there is no possibility of everyone else doing that!
Jo, I think that many of us have Lacys that are part-time workers, and part-time pets. Some more one way, or another... I also know that those who have dogs that are more toward the pet side get fired up when they think those with dogs that work more are saying that Lacys need to be in working homes. That is something that I cannot figure out how to fix, because we end up trying to define "work", and so many have such different ideas of where to draw the line. My dogs work very hard during hunting season, and then just get lots of exercise and attention during the other months of the year. I do think that educating everyone about Lacys, so that the number of people who really should never own one is kept as low as possible, should be at least part of the plan for all of us who have these dogs in our lives.
And finally, to all of you I say, please do not lose the fire and your independent thoughts to march in lockstep with any group, because that is more damaging than anything. We as individual owners, and breeders, are the front line to defending the best interest of the breed. Finding others who share that interest is nice, but there has to be a place for each of us to do the best we can to promote the Lacy dog. And, if you have found a few others who share your exact views you are very, very lucky. But, expecting one shoe to fit every foot is never going to happen!
|
|
|
Post by podunkheaven on Sept 5, 2011 9:37:53 GMT -6
You can't force the shoe to fit, it will rip down the side and be no good to anyone! Lacy owners, like their dogs, have lots of Fire. Friends who can reflect and agree to disagree can also reflect more good for the dogs than not.
|
|
|
Post by joyates on Sept 5, 2011 9:47:18 GMT -6
{"I formed an opinion on what your thoughts are when it comes to lacys"......} Camo, The statement above that I made, says that I formed an opinion of "what your thoughts are ", not of WHO you are. We just have different viewpoints, and I am OK with that. Guess I just wanted to share mine, and say that not everyone sees things the same way that you do. I just thought you came across pretty tough on the dog/owner that this post started about. I feel that from the pic that showed the dog with beads on it, where a little girl was probably playing dress up and including her dog, made your blood boil a little bit..... {"Just saw this post we can see what the peoblem is just by the photo what a shame. I have a question what job do you have for your lacy? Who was your breeder and did you tell your breeder you were buying a pet ?"} This is what you stated......"What a shame?!" because the dog has some beads on it and was being played with by a little girl "as a pet"?!?! I am not judging you, and I respect your opinion, however from some of the things that I have read that you have posted, my opinion differs....that's all. I hope that you will respect my opinion, as well. We will just "agree to disagree" on some things. If I have "misunderstood" some of your posts, then I am sorry. Again, I have not judged you as a person and won't.....that is not my place....I just don't share some of the same thoughts on lacys as you. I hope you have a great labor day!! I am generally known as a "peacemaker"....I don't like conflict and didn't mean to get anything started with you, but just wanted to defend the original poster. So "peace" !!! Mrs. Jo Yates 51 yr old menopausal woman that is dealing with alot in her life right now.......that's my excuse! LOL !
|
|
|
Post by camo on Sept 5, 2011 10:38:18 GMT -6
Well said Clifford and I can live with that ! Mrs Jo Yates I totally appreciate your opinion and can see were you are coming from. I think some times I come across a little rough but I find on these forums that someone always has to stir the pot a little to get people to truly say how they feel or post there honest opinion . I guess I am that guy a lot of the time . I do want you to know that I do not have a problem with Lacy's as part time workers and pets in the right hands . I sell some of my dogs as tracking dogs knowing they will not work year round . I have also sold one as a fly ball dog but she was sold with a spay contract. My view on that has never changed it has always been the same .So I do not think that our views are all that much different. I have to agree that we can agree to disagree on some things I find I have to do that a lot in the Lacy world. when you get a Lacy you get a dog and world of controversy that comes with it and finding people who agree on everything is not a easy task . to me a great Lacy owner is one who has a lot of pa$$ion about the breed and there dogs . I can tell you are one of those people and for that I commend you. As Cynthia and Clifford said only among fiends can you argue like we do and at the end of the day weather we agree there is common ground we all care about the breed. I hope we can engage in more of these conversation in the future . Now back to the topic at hand has this family and this dog been helped ?
|
|
|
Post by Clifford on Sept 5, 2011 10:46:34 GMT -6
I think the breeder sent them a better necklace... Does that count?
|
|
|
Post by camo on Sept 5, 2011 11:18:35 GMT -6
It depends if it matches the dress ;D !
|
|
|
Post by bkeepr on Sept 8, 2011 11:43:09 GMT -6
The whole "my Lacys are working dogs and yours are pets" discussion is very off-putting and unproductive. Really not inspired to even waste my time posting. Gotta go work my pet Lacys! Ha!
|
|